Anime Planet MUD - a study
Sep. 2nd, 2008 02:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tanithryudoBecause I can't exactly play seriously at work, I might as well play/test around with new chars to figure out just how exactly their class/race system works. :P
Exhibit A: Kitsune Mage
Starting stats are 20/23/20/20/20, and is easily raised to max of 25/25/25/25/25. This is exactly the same as for the Kitsune Cleric and Kitsune Ranger. Implication here is that the stats are the same across class boundaries for the same race.
Exhibit B: Angel Mage
Exhibit C: Senshi Mage
These show that stats are definitely race based. Though I would hazard to guess that the stats can be raised further with gear until they hit 25.
Exhibit D: Neko Ranger
The oddest thing I noted though is that when I practice spells/skills for the ranger, it takes more pracs to max out each spell/skill. Wheras for casters, it usually takes only 1 prac point to max all spells out, and even for skills it usually only takes 3-4 pracs to max, which is still less than ranger. I would chalk it up to the low int score (which is said to influence % per prac), but Mugetsu is a kitsune ranger and supposedly had the same problem.
The other thing of note is that the level gains are drastically less in all areas. Again, I'd be unsure if this is stat influenced if not for the fact that Mugetsu has low gains with maxed stats.
Update2 - tests done last night
Exhibit B2: Angel Cleric
Exhibit D2: Neko Cleric
Something weird happending when I was training stats on the neko cleric. I could've sworn I did more trains for con than is apparent on the numbers, which was why I ran out of train points and had to convert. I might've hit a bug there.
Any rate, so it appears that how it works is this... each race has a stat spread like in normal games. And then there are 3 extra points that's allocated to a stat depending on class. So kitsune is 20/20/20/20/20 with a +3 on wis for cleric, or +3 on int for mage, +3 str for war.
Interesting things to note in general:
* The "max" column of the stats isn't actually "max", but goes up with gear and training (I don't know why they even have it at all then)
* Armor class, hit roll, dam roll, save vs spell all do not change with leveling. Of course, there's still the monk class to test before that can be said definitively.
* level gains seem to be more heavily impacted by class then by stat
Hypotheses and musings
25/25/25/25/25 is the max that any stats can attain, but any char can get there with gear if not with training. In other words, the Kitsune has the equivalent pro of not having to worry about wearing stat gear, while other classes need to wear stat gear like in normal MUDs. So, does that mean kitsune is broken?
Race influences stats, but stats have fairly small impact on level gains (at least, smaller than class does). By comparison, the physical classes (at least ranger, not sure if thief and warriors are in the same boat) seem to be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to level gains. How do they make it up? I would presume by better skills/spells maybe? Or some other method? (Well, for warriors and thief classes at least, they can get by just ignoring the mana and pwr gains since they don't need it. But the fact that they may also get lower HP gains due to class is rather unusual.)
Granted, this is still something of a research in progress... I don't want to annoy people too much with "newbies" logging in and out. I guess more investigation into the more physical oriented classes/races would be the next step.
Exhibit E: Kitsune Warrior
One thing I almost missed, the kitsune still starts out with the same spread of starting stats, but the values are spread differently. Ie, the 23 is on str and not wis as it was for cleric. It's likely then the other classes are like that too...
Looking just at the level gains, it appears that all of the gains (HP/MN/pwr) are lower for warrior with maxed con/int/dex when compared to other classes with less in those stats.
I do notice, however, that it takes less pracs to get skills up to 75% for warrior than it did for ranger. Some of the weapon proficiencies only took 1 prac to go from 0% to 75%. That's the equivalent of a caster prac'ing spells. Again, though, not sure if that isn't influenced by the max int...
Exhibit F: Neko Monk
First thing I discovered is that doing "wear all" on a monk will not cause it to wear any more items once it has worn either a hold item or a wield item. And in this MUD, monk can actually wear the same items as anyone else, it just can't have a hold item at the same time as a wield weapon. The fact that I discovered this at lvl 5 incidentally also generated some other interesting data.
Looking just at the gains: There appears to be a 10 HP increase from when con was 21 to when con is maxed. There's a smaller almost unnoticeable increase in mana gains as int went up 3 points to 18. The pracs, however, is the most noticeable, going from 3 per lvl to 6 per level as wis increased from 17 to 22.
One other thing that caught my notice was the % skill increase per prac. It seems to be even less than for ranger. However, again I can't be sure if it's not impacted by int, as my tests for ranger and monk so far had the lowest int scores. However, I do note that when int was 15, the gain was 8% per prace for most skills. At int 18, the gain was about 10%...almost, maybe, corresponding to the 3 point increase.
As a whole though I have to take back my earlier thoughts that level gains are more class dependent than stat dependent. As MN/PWR gains are more consistent with neko/ranger than with neko/cleric, it looks like only those two gains are more class than stat dependent. By contrast, prac gain and HP gain do appear to be stat dependent. And int seems to be more used for the % gain for pracs than for mana gain.
Exhibit G: Angel Ranger
Here we have the first case of a stat going over 25... however, it is the max stat column that is at 27. Raising the "current state" over 25 does not appear possible, so there's no real meaning to that /27.
With regards to pracs, it does appear to do better than the neko ranger. However, the cleric only needed 1 prac to hit 75% on cure light whereas ranger needs to, so there is definitely a class difference. Int, however, does seem to have a visible effect as well.
Level gains are about 5 HP lower than the angel mage, less than half the mana gain, and maybe 2/3 the power gain. Prac gain seems to be no different, probably due to max wis.
Exhibit A: Kitsune Mage
Starting stats are 20/23/20/20/20, and is easily raised to max of 25/25/25/25/25. This is exactly the same as for the Kitsune Cleric and Kitsune Ranger. Implication here is that the stats are the same across class boundaries for the same race.
Exhibit B: Angel Mage
Exhibit C: Senshi Mage
These show that stats are definitely race based. Though I would hazard to guess that the stats can be raised further with gear until they hit 25.
Exhibit D: Neko Ranger
The oddest thing I noted though is that when I practice spells/skills for the ranger, it takes more pracs to max out each spell/skill. Wheras for casters, it usually takes only 1 prac point to max all spells out, and even for skills it usually only takes 3-4 pracs to max, which is still less than ranger. I would chalk it up to the low int score (which is said to influence % per prac), but Mugetsu is a kitsune ranger and supposedly had the same problem.
The other thing of note is that the level gains are drastically less in all areas. Again, I'd be unsure if this is stat influenced if not for the fact that Mugetsu has low gains with maxed stats.
Update2 - tests done last night
Exhibit B2: Angel Cleric
Exhibit D2: Neko Cleric
Something weird happending when I was training stats on the neko cleric. I could've sworn I did more trains for con than is apparent on the numbers, which was why I ran out of train points and had to convert. I might've hit a bug there.
Any rate, so it appears that how it works is this... each race has a stat spread like in normal games. And then there are 3 extra points that's allocated to a stat depending on class. So kitsune is 20/20/20/20/20 with a +3 on wis for cleric, or +3 on int for mage, +3 str for war.
Interesting things to note in general:
* The "max" column of the stats isn't actually "max", but goes up with gear and training (I don't know why they even have it at all then)
* Armor class, hit roll, dam roll, save vs spell all do not change with leveling. Of course, there's still the monk class to test before that can be said definitively.
* level gains seem to be more heavily impacted by class then by stat
Hypotheses and musings
25/25/25/25/25 is the max that any stats can attain, but any char can get there with gear if not with training. In other words, the Kitsune has the equivalent pro of not having to worry about wearing stat gear, while other classes need to wear stat gear like in normal MUDs. So, does that mean kitsune is broken?
Race influences stats, but stats have fairly small impact on level gains (at least, smaller than class does). By comparison, the physical classes (at least ranger, not sure if thief and warriors are in the same boat) seem to be at a huge disadvantage when it comes to level gains. How do they make it up? I would presume by better skills/spells maybe? Or some other method? (Well, for warriors and thief classes at least, they can get by just ignoring the mana and pwr gains since they don't need it. But the fact that they may also get lower HP gains due to class is rather unusual.)
Granted, this is still something of a research in progress... I don't want to annoy people too much with "newbies" logging in and out. I guess more investigation into the more physical oriented classes/races would be the next step.
Exhibit E: Kitsune Warrior
One thing I almost missed, the kitsune still starts out with the same spread of starting stats, but the values are spread differently. Ie, the 23 is on str and not wis as it was for cleric. It's likely then the other classes are like that too...
Looking just at the level gains, it appears that all of the gains (HP/MN/pwr) are lower for warrior with maxed con/int/dex when compared to other classes with less in those stats.
I do notice, however, that it takes less pracs to get skills up to 75% for warrior than it did for ranger. Some of the weapon proficiencies only took 1 prac to go from 0% to 75%. That's the equivalent of a caster prac'ing spells. Again, though, not sure if that isn't influenced by the max int...
Exhibit F: Neko Monk
First thing I discovered is that doing "wear all" on a monk will not cause it to wear any more items once it has worn either a hold item or a wield item. And in this MUD, monk can actually wear the same items as anyone else, it just can't have a hold item at the same time as a wield weapon. The fact that I discovered this at lvl 5 incidentally also generated some other interesting data.
Looking just at the gains: There appears to be a 10 HP increase from when con was 21 to when con is maxed. There's a smaller almost unnoticeable increase in mana gains as int went up 3 points to 18. The pracs, however, is the most noticeable, going from 3 per lvl to 6 per level as wis increased from 17 to 22.
One other thing that caught my notice was the % skill increase per prac. It seems to be even less than for ranger. However, again I can't be sure if it's not impacted by int, as my tests for ranger and monk so far had the lowest int scores. However, I do note that when int was 15, the gain was 8% per prace for most skills. At int 18, the gain was about 10%...almost, maybe, corresponding to the 3 point increase.
As a whole though I have to take back my earlier thoughts that level gains are more class dependent than stat dependent. As MN/PWR gains are more consistent with neko/ranger than with neko/cleric, it looks like only those two gains are more class than stat dependent. By contrast, prac gain and HP gain do appear to be stat dependent. And int seems to be more used for the % gain for pracs than for mana gain.
Exhibit G: Angel Ranger
Here we have the first case of a stat going over 25... however, it is the max stat column that is at 27. Raising the "current state" over 25 does not appear possible, so there's no real meaning to that /27.
With regards to pracs, it does appear to do better than the neko ranger. However, the cleric only needed 1 prac to hit 75% on cure light whereas ranger needs to, so there is definitely a class difference. Int, however, does seem to have a visible effect as well.
Level gains are about 5 HP lower than the angel mage, less than half the mana gain, and maybe 2/3 the power gain. Prac gain seems to be no different, probably due to max wis.
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(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-03 12:23 am (UTC)Rangers have very little level gain, mostly because I think rangers are a typical jack of all trades class. They have one of the biggest skill and spell list, almost overwhelming considering. That's probably why they learn everything so slowly.
But, like you said, you'd need to experiment with physical classes, too, to get a better idea of how the stats work.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-09-03 03:09 am (UTC)Overall for the stats though, the other issue is that they don't seem to affect things (at least for lvling gains) much. Certainly not as much as class does. But if that's the case, then the only important thing about picking a race is for their inborn abilities and their evolution reqs... and then why do you need to have stats at all? o_o
Rangers have more gains than warriors, and I would presume also for thieves. They seemed to be more on the order of "all lvl gains are somewhere between pure physicals and casters".
I'll try to test around with thief and monk class tomorrow...
Physicals
Date: 2008-09-04 02:20 am (UTC)It's kind of tough trying to figure out class gains when you don't post said class gains, you realize this, yes?
Also, while HP is stat dependent, there is definitely a class aspect, seeing as physical classes for some reason gain less HP than casting classes, despite having same stats (*coughrangervsclericcough*). The only advantage I can think of that physical classes have over casters is their weapon choice. Man swords (a physical class only weapon) come with huge AC (possibly to make up for the lack of a shield) and large HR and DR. And I've noticed that second, third attacks actually do connect and do decent damage. So that could increase the damage out put from physicals.
So what you need to do is record the avg damage out put from caster classes (spells and melee attacks alike) with physical classes and see which one does more damage per round. Also, I wonder if physical classes have any damage reduction inherent to the class itself... Hm...
Re: Physicals
Date: 2008-09-04 08:24 pm (UTC)Some of the very early tests were done before I'd thought to measure levelling gains...
I think any "damage reduction" inherent to the class is probably due to the skills they get. For instance in actual numbers, maybe shield block is more effective at defense than evade or dodge on the casters. Who knows.
BTW, I picked up some hr/dr gear last night that you should take off my hands. Catch me in game for them (hopefully).