> my dad's teacher was still teaching "4000 years" back when he was in school.
Interesting...was this around the 70s? 80s?
I did some googling out of curiosity myself, and found someinfo at least from the western perspective on this. Apparently the 5000 year claim started with Christian missionaries, then got backported to China during the Qing dynasty. Was actively pushed by the ROC, and now by the PRC...
I'm not as adept at searching baidu, so I wonder if CN sites have a different origin of the 5000 year claim.
> I do know that there's Western kooks who try to argue Chinese culture isn't indigenous and is actually the result of Western colonization
Huh, really? I haven't heard anything like that (even as critic response from the CN side). I have heard of kooks that claim that Chinese civ technically ended with Song. Or that Tang isn't considered "chinese" enough because their rulers have 鲜卑 bloodline (and are thereby directly cast out of Han ethnicity), and thus Han rule ended with Han.
Not sure if those come from western kooks or native kooks though, because as we discussed before, the state of historical literacy in the populace is lamentable.
> I think depending on which year of Qin vs which year of Han, peasant life quality is a bit up in the air
The main thing is, if we're just talking about the dynasty and not the Qin Kingdom, then Qin's only got like 14-ish years. So either you're among the statistic that dies young, or you're always going to smack into the war era. At least the length of Han means statistically, you've got a good chance of living out your lifespan during peacetime.
Sui is slightly better due to 隋文帝's reign lasting longer, I guess, though it had its own problems inherited wholesale from the previous dynasty he usurped. But most of 杨广's reign was a shitshow for the peasantry (which is how he drove the empire to ruin). Tang, the main dangers are the 8 years of 安史之乱 and the buildup to 五代十国, and I guess also depending on whether you lived near the borders or near the capital, but still, I think statistically, it's likely the safer pick.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2025-03-30 08:57 am (UTC)Interesting...was this around the 70s? 80s?
I did some googling out of curiosity myself, and found some info at least from the western perspective on this. Apparently the 5000 year claim started with Christian missionaries, then got backported to China during the Qing dynasty. Was actively pushed by the ROC, and now by the PRC...
I'm not as adept at searching baidu, so I wonder if CN sites have a different origin of the 5000 year claim.
> I do know that there's Western kooks who try to argue Chinese culture isn't indigenous and is actually the result of Western colonization
Huh, really? I haven't heard anything like that (even as critic response from the CN side). I have heard of kooks that claim that Chinese civ technically ended with Song. Or that Tang isn't considered "chinese" enough because their rulers have 鲜卑 bloodline (and are thereby directly cast out of Han ethnicity), and thus Han rule ended with Han.
Not sure if those come from western kooks or native kooks though, because as we discussed before, the state of historical literacy in the populace is lamentable.
> I think depending on which year of Qin vs which year of Han, peasant life quality is a bit up in the air
The main thing is, if we're just talking about the dynasty and not the Qin Kingdom, then Qin's only got like 14-ish years. So either you're among the statistic that dies young, or you're always going to smack into the war era. At least the length of Han means statistically, you've got a good chance of living out your lifespan during peacetime.
Sui is slightly better due to 隋文帝's reign lasting longer, I guess, though it had its own problems inherited wholesale from the previous dynasty he usurped. But most of 杨广's reign was a shitshow for the peasantry (which is how he drove the empire to ruin). Tang, the main dangers are the 8 years of 安史之乱 and the buildup to 五代十国, and I guess also depending on whether you lived near the borders or near the capital, but still, I think statistically, it's likely the safer pick.