> If we drop that to 3 units per role, that's only 81 combos. I can literally crunch those numbers in an excel spreadsheet.
Ugh.. characters of a specific role are not just swappable templates with numbers changed. They involve designing and testing new mechanics which don't just spring into existence as simple as copy-pasta and adding a +1.
And it's not just you need to design N combos that work with each other. You also need to design around the fact that all *other* P-N possible combinations *don't* work with each other in unintended/broken ways. You also need to ensure that there's no (unintended) duplication of mechanics or stat boosts.
> a support unit's biggest concern is to be compatible with DPS
The biggest concern with support units from a *design* perspective is not about how much they boost any particular DPS. It's that they (1) don't make any previous supports completely obsolete in the eyes of players, and (2) don't interact with other supports/DPS in broken ways. This complexity obviously increases the more combos of characters there are in total.
I roughly follow some of the news on the CN leaks forum and the pre-release characters often go through several phases of testing/buffs/nerfs, and half the time, changes are geared toward adding or removing specific synergies with specific characters.
> it's AoE DPS-Single Target DPS, heal-shield, buff-debuff. That's a total of six roles.
It's not just as simple as that. The reason why there's different mechanics (sets) is to serve specific encounters.
Jing Yuan and Argenti are both 5 star Erudition, but you can't just shuffle them both under AoE DPS. Jing Yuan will benefit from follow-up bonuses whereas Argenti can't. Argenti will benefit way more from ult buffs where most of JY's damage comes from his Lightning Lord.
Ruan Mei and Robin are both popular buffers but they also don't fall into the same "role". RM is a staple for break-focused teams, while Robin is best to support a team that can go multiple times per round (eg. follow-up teams, but not JY's type of followup, which is too slow).
> OK, from what you were saying it sounded like people who main other DPS units are better off not pulling him, which makes it sound like he's designed specifically for Acheron and Ratio.
He's specifically designed for Acheron. Ratio is just an incidental side benefit.
Objectively speaking, people who *don't* play Acheron will get more value for their money if they pull on a different support which better suits their DPS. But if they do pull for Jiaoqiu w/o Acheron, it's not like he's useless. If you throw him into a team with random DPS and sustain, they'll still function, just not as well as if he's with Acheron.
> This makes it sound like there's actually an ideal combo that fits multiple DPS units.
The previous standard follow-up team was Ratio+Topaz+Robin+Aventurine. Feixiao is explicitly supposed to be an improvement/replacement over Ratio (lacking his debuff requirement), which is tolerated by players because Ratio was given out for free to most people and thus it doesn't feel like any purchase was invalidated. The other potential supports for Feixiao are 4 stars (Hunt-March and upcoming Moze); they're considered a cheaper side-grade/slight downgrade to Topaz for people who don't have her or don't have the money to pull her.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2024-08-27 07:12 am (UTC)Ugh.. characters of a specific role are not just swappable templates with numbers changed. They involve designing and testing new mechanics which don't just spring into existence as simple as copy-pasta and adding a +1.
And it's not just you need to design N combos that work with each other. You also need to design around the fact that all *other* P-N possible combinations *don't* work with each other in unintended/broken ways. You also need to ensure that there's no (unintended) duplication of mechanics or stat boosts.
> a support unit's biggest concern is to be compatible with DPS
The biggest concern with support units from a *design* perspective is not about how much they boost any particular DPS. It's that they (1) don't make any previous supports completely obsolete in the eyes of players, and (2) don't interact with other supports/DPS in broken ways. This complexity obviously increases the more combos of characters there are in total.
I roughly follow some of the news on the CN leaks forum and the pre-release characters often go through several phases of testing/buffs/nerfs, and half the time, changes are geared toward adding or removing specific synergies with specific characters.
> it's AoE DPS-Single Target DPS, heal-shield, buff-debuff. That's a total of six roles.
It's not just as simple as that. The reason why there's different mechanics (sets) is to serve specific encounters.
Jing Yuan and Argenti are both 5 star Erudition, but you can't just shuffle them both under AoE DPS. Jing Yuan will benefit from follow-up bonuses whereas Argenti can't. Argenti will benefit way more from ult buffs where most of JY's damage comes from his Lightning Lord.
Ruan Mei and Robin are both popular buffers but they also don't fall into the same "role". RM is a staple for break-focused teams, while Robin is best to support a team that can go multiple times per round (eg. follow-up teams, but not JY's type of followup, which is too slow).
> OK, from what you were saying it sounded like people who main other DPS units are better off not pulling him, which makes it sound like he's designed specifically for Acheron and Ratio.
He's specifically designed for Acheron. Ratio is just an incidental side benefit.
Objectively speaking, people who *don't* play Acheron will get more value for their money if they pull on a different support which better suits their DPS. But if they do pull for Jiaoqiu w/o Acheron, it's not like he's useless. If you throw him into a team with random DPS and sustain, they'll still function, just not as well as if he's with Acheron.
> This makes it sound like there's actually an ideal combo that fits multiple DPS units.
The previous standard follow-up team was Ratio+Topaz+Robin+Aventurine. Feixiao is explicitly supposed to be an improvement/replacement over Ratio (lacking his debuff requirement), which is tolerated by players because Ratio was given out for free to most people and thus it doesn't feel like any purchase was invalidated. The other potential supports for Feixiao are 4 stars (Hunt-March and upcoming Moze); they're considered a cheaper side-grade/slight downgrade to Topaz for people who don't have her or don't have the money to pull her.