tanithryudo (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
tanithryudo) wrote2009-02-02 08:52 am
tanithryudo) wrote2009-02-02 08:52 am
Entry tags:
GW update and fic-induced ramblings about Superman
Canthan New Year festival was this last weekend. Since I was out for most of it, I only had time to run the characters on my account through the Canthan quests. In the end that was about 300 or so lunar tokens...and no mini-ox. Yes, I know my luck sucks. In the end I threw in the towel and just bought a mini for 30k. Dedicated it on my ranger's HoM. (Speaking of mini's, also noted my Necro got her 2nd bday present; it turned out to be a juggernaut, which I dedicated on my assassin's HoM.)
The entire rest of the festival, I just left my laptop running and afk'ed away on the nine rings. Spent about 50k or so on tickets and got my lucky rank to 2. Should help with lockpick bonus in the future.
Also, the festival was very generous with party and sweet points. Managed to get Aoki on![[insanejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/ij-userinfo.gif)
cashew's account to rank 1 Sweet Tooth and Party Animal. I still have a bunch of crates of fireworks leftover, since they can only be used in the GH.
Outside of Guild Wars, I finally weaned myself off the Chinese BBS for fanfiction (however long that lasts). I've been reading mainly LnC (Lois & Clark TV series) fanfiction lately. It started off with being curious about some of the links on the main fanfic archive site, and then snowballed from there. The authors of this fandom, I note, tend to write long. A great many of them like to write fics which are a few hundred KB in length, and that's only one part of a series. Also, the archive is still updated weekly with new works, which is impressive for a dead series (went off the air in the mid 90s).
Writing isn't too bad either, though I think that mainly has to do with the fact that the targeted demographic for the TV show was probably the best for good fanfiction (adult female audience). So far most of the writing have managed to keep Lois as a strong female protagonist without turning her into an annoying Sue (ala Lana of Smallville), and a Clark aka Superman without much of the "superdickery" (ala the comics).
Though, reading so much LnC fics got me musing on the differences with the other portrayals of the iconic character of Superman. Compared to the latest comics (based on what little I recall from CBR and a recent skimming of a few graphic novels at Borders) and what I've heard about the 2006 movie, there is one interesting difference. LnC (and the other TV version of the character as well in Smallville) portrayed him as intrinsically Clark Kent, whose "disguise" is Superman (tho not yet in Smallville continuity). The comics/movies portray it the other way around, and it's Superman/Kal-El of Kypton whose "disguise"/secret identity is Clark Kent.
How much of a difference does that portrayal make on the character, I wonder? On the one hand, you basically have someone who is supposed to pretty much be a human with human flaws, albeit with a very moral character (not talking Smallville here), who just happens to have all these extra powers that he uses to "help". On the other hand, we have a person who has a somewhat alien cultural background and who presumes to act for what he judges to be the good of humanity. Which one is more to praise/admire? Which one should we (as in the humanity in the story) have more cause to fear and be worried about?
Well, the character being fictional, I guess the comparison would largely come down to the writer that writes the character, and of course the elements of the plotline involved. And just comparing the works themselves, I'd have to say there's a lot to worry on both parts. One the one extreme, we have Smallville to showcase what happens when the character is characterized as a very fallible human with powers. One the other extreme, some of the comics (especially some of the older ones and the elseworld versions of the mainstream character) go the other extreme on the jaw-dropping blunders that this demigod can pull with some of his strange alien logic (the Vanishing arc being a good example - WTF were you thinking arbitrarily creating a pocket dimension with a fake paradise just because of a random comment out of your wife's pillow talk and then not locking the entrance?!).
And then, there is the school of thought that the best use of great power (in a society that can't stand up against it) is for the user not to use it. This wasn't from any version of Superman or any other comic-inspired work, of course. In fact, I think I first read of it in a Highlander fic. So I guess this is sort of the third extreme, a very... MiB-ish way of looking at things. Then again, is that the right stance to take either? Is there a moral duty for someone who has powers to help "more" than those who don't? I mean, to take a non-powered example, if you can swim and you see someone who is drowning, do you have a moral duty to save them? If you see a mugging and there's not enough time to call the cops (and assuming you have the self defense skills to prevent it), do you have a moral duty to disarm/disable the mugger? If you overhear a crime taking place (embezzling, drug dealing, etc.) do you have a moral duty to report it? Now throw in superpowers, where the character can run into burning buildings and stop criminals with guns with no harm to self, and overhear things from halfway around the planet... well, do they still have that moral duty to intervene? At which point should the line be drawn?
Finally, are there any manga variations on the superhero genre? The only thing that really come to mind for me was Sailor V (which, IIRC, had generic fights against normal criminals and such, while Sailor Moon series tends to only be reactionary responses against specific groups of villains).
Add: Rumbles thread
The entire rest of the festival, I just left my laptop running and afk'ed away on the nine rings. Spent about 50k or so on tickets and got my lucky rank to 2. Should help with lockpick bonus in the future.
Also, the festival was very generous with party and sweet points. Managed to get Aoki on
cashew's account to rank 1 Sweet Tooth and Party Animal. I still have a bunch of crates of fireworks leftover, since they can only be used in the GH.Outside of Guild Wars, I finally weaned myself off the Chinese BBS for fanfiction (however long that lasts). I've been reading mainly LnC (Lois & Clark TV series) fanfiction lately. It started off with being curious about some of the links on the main fanfic archive site, and then snowballed from there. The authors of this fandom, I note, tend to write long. A great many of them like to write fics which are a few hundred KB in length, and that's only one part of a series. Also, the archive is still updated weekly with new works, which is impressive for a dead series (went off the air in the mid 90s).
Writing isn't too bad either, though I think that mainly has to do with the fact that the targeted demographic for the TV show was probably the best for good fanfiction (adult female audience). So far most of the writing have managed to keep Lois as a strong female protagonist without turning her into an annoying Sue (ala Lana of Smallville), and a Clark aka Superman without much of the "superdickery" (ala the comics).
Though, reading so much LnC fics got me musing on the differences with the other portrayals of the iconic character of Superman. Compared to the latest comics (based on what little I recall from CBR and a recent skimming of a few graphic novels at Borders) and what I've heard about the 2006 movie, there is one interesting difference. LnC (and the other TV version of the character as well in Smallville) portrayed him as intrinsically Clark Kent, whose "disguise" is Superman (tho not yet in Smallville continuity). The comics/movies portray it the other way around, and it's Superman/Kal-El of Kypton whose "disguise"/secret identity is Clark Kent.
How much of a difference does that portrayal make on the character, I wonder? On the one hand, you basically have someone who is supposed to pretty much be a human with human flaws, albeit with a very moral character (not talking Smallville here), who just happens to have all these extra powers that he uses to "help". On the other hand, we have a person who has a somewhat alien cultural background and who presumes to act for what he judges to be the good of humanity. Which one is more to praise/admire? Which one should we (as in the humanity in the story) have more cause to fear and be worried about?
Well, the character being fictional, I guess the comparison would largely come down to the writer that writes the character, and of course the elements of the plotline involved. And just comparing the works themselves, I'd have to say there's a lot to worry on both parts. One the one extreme, we have Smallville to showcase what happens when the character is characterized as a very fallible human with powers. One the other extreme, some of the comics (especially some of the older ones and the elseworld versions of the mainstream character) go the other extreme on the jaw-dropping blunders that this demigod can pull with some of his strange alien logic (the Vanishing arc being a good example - WTF were you thinking arbitrarily creating a pocket dimension with a fake paradise just because of a random comment out of your wife's pillow talk and then not locking the entrance?!).
And then, there is the school of thought that the best use of great power (in a society that can't stand up against it) is for the user not to use it. This wasn't from any version of Superman or any other comic-inspired work, of course. In fact, I think I first read of it in a Highlander fic. So I guess this is sort of the third extreme, a very... MiB-ish way of looking at things. Then again, is that the right stance to take either? Is there a moral duty for someone who has powers to help "more" than those who don't? I mean, to take a non-powered example, if you can swim and you see someone who is drowning, do you have a moral duty to save them? If you see a mugging and there's not enough time to call the cops (and assuming you have the self defense skills to prevent it), do you have a moral duty to disarm/disable the mugger? If you overhear a crime taking place (embezzling, drug dealing, etc.) do you have a moral duty to report it? Now throw in superpowers, where the character can run into burning buildings and stop criminals with guns with no harm to self, and overhear things from halfway around the planet... well, do they still have that moral duty to intervene? At which point should the line be drawn?
Finally, are there any manga variations on the superhero genre? The only thing that really come to mind for me was Sailor V (which, IIRC, had generic fights against normal criminals and such, while Sailor Moon series tends to only be reactionary responses against specific groups of villains).
Add: Rumbles thread
no subject
Now, you're Smallville version is slightly flawed. So far, within the boundaries of Smallville, Clark Kent uses his powers because of his family and friends. He's not yet searching the world for people who needs saving, just those who need saving that he knows personally. There's a pretty big difference between scouring for the world's scum to hunt down and saving your friend from imminent hand-through-heart death.
As for your comics extreme, albeit I don't have a very good grasp of him, his interaction with random scientist/official/priest or supporting Superhero is hardly what one calls "social interaction" in the concept of "social responsibility". Interacting with one person is not a social interaction. He, that is the Superman persona, is not affected by the laws passed (or he'd've been arrested for vigilante behavior by now). He isn't restricted by due process. He isn't even a citizen, let alone capable of performing a citizen arrest. He doesn't qualify for any sector of the government hierarchy (at least we're still the bottom rung researcher/worker) nor is his affiliated with any organization under societal supervision (unless the Justice League pays taxes and undergoes safety inspection). He doesn't have to deal with figuring out homeless policies or debate the validity of tax breaks. In short, Superman doesn't interact with society, he just steps in, as far as the humans can tell, when he damn well feels like it.
Now, you ask me if it's a matter of degree, and I will tell you, uh, hell yeah. You cannot honestly tell me that if a person (not even alien) who is not affiliated with another country suddenly started throwing his/her weight around about how things should be done (a la U.S.), they wouldn't be told to butt out, even if they may have trade relations. A normal civilian needs the water, food, shelter, and even jobs that their society provides for basic survival. That need dictates that these normal people need to interact on even the most basic level. They need to pay rent, pay for food, earn a wage, etc. But Superman (again, not Clark Kent), is mysterious. It's a thing that doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, doesn't need humans or need to interact with humans. It chose to jump in, as far as the innocent civilian could tell.
But that's speaking from the fictional humanity's point of view. In other words, when you are dependent on the society in which you live for your survival, yeah, you damn well have a social responsibility to keep it alive. If you aren't...well...
Think of it this way, we, humans, are probably mysterious, superior, super beings to many animals out there. Are we morally or socially charged for their survival? No. However, unlike Superman, we choose to protect because we need them on a different level from survival, because we see them as our property (in a way). Are they (the writers) willing to consider Superman as protecting what he believes is rightfully his? Because if he does, it's not longer about the "right" thing to do so much as the thing he needs to do.
As for the super-intelligence thing, I thought that's what you were implying regarding the comics extreme of the Super persona vs. Clark Kent persona, that the Super persona is capable of some Super-Smart thinking that goes beyond mere humans. Color me misinterpreting.
no subject
Gotcha. I was unclear to what you mean that to constituted.
I'm reminded of a LnC fic where Superman got hounded by the INS regarding his (lack of) citizenship status and ended up marrying Lois in order to stay in Metropolis. I didn't read the whole thing since it was almost 1 MB text and much of it was overly nauseous romantic drama/angst, but the premise was interesting.
Anyway, consider hypothetically (or even not so hypothetically in a variety of fics and canonical alternate universes) the case where Superman goes public with his Clark Kent identity. He now has citizenship, job, taxes, bills, voting record, etc. At this point what can he reasonably claim to be his social responsibilities?
Second case (completely separate): Suppose he is requested by the government/UN/PTB of any country for some purpose - be it to help at a natural disaster or to mediate a war somewhere. While he certainly doesn't have an obligation or responsibility to it, how much of a difference would the decision to acquiesce be on a... moral or social level ...than if he up and decides to do something without being asked? Would the act of being asked constitute the necessary social interaction to make the decision a socially responsible one?
Are they (the writers) willing to consider Superman as protecting what he believes is rightfully his?
Actually, now there's an idea I'd like to see explored in fanfiction. Pity I haven't seen one.
no subject
At the point where Superman is also voting, paying taxes, bills, and attending jury duty, then one would assume that he also feels a kind of kinship with his bretheren, in which case, yes, it would be his social responsibility to save his fellow man and help out when others need his help. Again, this needs to be in the context of him having connections to the people around him beyond what his current Superman persona poses. Just like only citizens have the right to vote, so should only Superman be preaching his high horse when he's experienced the trials and tribulations regarding what humans must endure. In the same vein, it would then be the rest of the world's social responsibility to save his ass when he's writhing in pain from kryptonite.
After all, if you were to see someone curled on the sidewalk in pain, wouldn't you feel compelled to help them? Either call them a doctor or help them into the infirmatory? And is Clark Kent's "journalistic integrity" any more different than any other journalist trying to hunt down corrupt politicians? I think here the question should be more a question of: does he have a responsibility to go beyond what his fellow humans could, simply because he has the ability? The answer...depends on your own world view.
The second case: When being asked, there exist an unequivocal need from the party being helped. Unlike saving someone from drowning, one cannot simply assume a war means intervention is needed. Has the middle east conflict taught us nothing? Actually, I would realy like to see how Superman plans to solve that particular problem should the UN ever come to him. Surely even he must realize diplomacy is needed in that quagmire.
As for trying to find the line to the level of social responsibility, it should be easy enough to ask yourself this: if someone else had the ability to butt into the problem that you were solving and solved it, would you feel grateful or resentful? If the former, then obviously Superman ought to step in, if the latter then Superman should keep his big nose to himself. "Do unto others" and all that.
I'd like to see Superman getting his just due already, hopefully involving some enlightenment of how much of an ass he'd been running around thinking he knows best.
no subject
[The judge] asked: "Do you have any funds of your own?"
Good thing she wasn't asking this of the guy who wears the ties, Clark thought. What little I have in that bank account at the moment is a joke. "No, Your Honor." He wondered about adding that he didn't feel destitute or in need of charity, or if that might sound like he sponged off of friends, but she didn't indicate that she wanted to know that much.
(snip)
In a few moments, his incredibly fine selective hearing sorted through the noise around him and gave him the sound of the judge laughing out loud, possibly near the point of tears, in her private chambers.
> I think here the question should be more a question of: does he have a responsibility to go beyond what his fellow humans could, simply because he has the ability?
It's funny... quite a few fics I've read tend to go the way of Lois gets the scoop/story and Clark runs around trying to keep her from being kidnapped/killed, and then they share the by-line. I guess he's the Daily Planet's way of avoiding hazard pay/outrageous insurance to cover Lois. XD
Ok, maybe that's a little harsh. I do like the stories where they get the story by smart thinking instead of relying on powers.
> getting his just due
That did happen in the movie (from what I understand). Sort of happens in LnC (though more for the way he was making a mess of things with Lois than for his other Superman stuff, but then again the whole show is centered around that relationship). Not applicable yet for Smallville. Haven't read enough comics to know if he got the lesson there, but probably not enough.
no subject